statement that the republican address will not be happening this weekend so that "president obama can speak for the nation at this time of mourning." i join the president in condolences and prayers to the victims' loved ones. and on sunday, there will be a prayer vigil at the church. in terms of our coverage tonight, i have a correction to good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. tonight we have an hour to get on top of the horrific tragedy in connecticut to get our heads around it to understand why things like this happen and of course it will take much longer, but let's get to it. we have michelle franzen on the

scene, and clint van zandt profiler and msnbc analyst, and psychologist jeff grandier, and caroline mccarthy who entered politics after her husband was killed in a multiple shooting on a suburban commuter train, and we have the head of the national association of school safety and also we will go to my colleague michelle franzen. thank you for staying with us tonight. >> well, hi, chris. we are here in the knnewtown ar of connecticut miles from sandy hook, connecticut, where the tragic shooting took place today. right now, hundreds of resident s are gathering at a nearby catholic church for a vigil to for those lives of young people

who were shot today. they are holding a prayer vigil to comfort the families who were told that they had lost their loved ones in this town. it is a small new england town in area, and very rural area in the central part of connecticut here. the school certainly k-4 as we mentioned, we don't have identifycations tor age-- of th schoolchildren or the names being released, but we are told that the investigators are processing the scene now and trying to deal with the identification of the children and as governor maloy says back le turn them back to their families to grieve their loss at this time. this community certainly just now getting out of the sadness and shock part of this grief heavily starting to set in. what we don't know about the shooter at this time is his exact identification, and they are trying to process that information as well. there are numerous reports that

they are trying to figure out the exact identification that they had on him at the time, but the main focus here for law enforcement, and for first responders is dealing with the families who have lost those children, 18, who died at that school, chris, and two others transported to a local hospital and died later and six adults and the shooter who died, to 27 people in all killed in this small area community here, and more details we will be learning about the heroics inside of that school as this tragedy played out, and we are hearing about teachers who were in that section of the school where that happened when they heard shouts or the shooting that started to begin, that they gathered those children, and they hovered in an area, and we have seen the images of parents who were reunited with some of their children, and we have seen ochl

the expressions on children as they were coming out of the school today. many of them being told to cover their eyes as they were told to come out of that area, and again, this tragedy that we are used to hearing of this more often in areas around the country in the decades, but chris, this shooting involving some of the youngest victims this time around. >> and let me ask you about the time because it is 7:00 p.m. eastern in the second edition at this time, and let me ask you about the bodies of the young children and that is what they are, young children, 20 of them altogether, and the 18, are the bodies still held at the school, the elementary school? >> i think that investigators are still trying to deal with that scene there, and we have heard from law enforcement that they are beginning to work through that school to identify the bodies, and to get the bosd out of there, and we are told by one law enforcement officer that is describing the scene on the inside is that it is just a very

very difficult to deal with. >> thank you so much, michelle franzen. let me go to a psychologist jeff gardie gardier, and we know from all of the efforts here at msnbc, that it was a guy with a history of mental illness of some kind, and he got up this morning at his mother's home where they were living together, and killed her. took guns that were are registered in her name including an assault rifle and two semi u semiautomatic pistols, and headed off to the school where she taught, and then after killing the administrators and the adults and killing students to the point of 20 together now, and what can you put together, josh, to get to anything if that is all you knew? >> no, it is hard to know exactly what is going on with this person, because there are a lot of people in this country who have mental illness and at any one given time it is estimated that 25% of this

country is suffering from a mental health disorder and 1% or 2% of the people in this country have a seriously mental mental health disturbance where they are psychotic or delusional. just because they have a mental illness does not mean they will do something like that. >> but the psychosis to kill your mother and then 20 kids? >> there are so few cases of this, that it is hard to study. when we look at the situations of parents killing their kids it is called filicide and men will kill the kids to get back at the woman, because they know it is the most effective way to hurt the one they love. and in this particular case maybe he killed h his mom and then he wanted to kill the things that his mom loved as well. so that is why he went back to the school, and went to the school and killed the kids she has been involved in teaching over the years. >> and a second opinion, jeff gardier, psychologist, and i

know we are getting a profile of this case, and we know that this 20-year-old killed his mother. and then he went in and killed 26 people. there we have it. including all of the most of them being from the ages of kindergarten age to fourth grade. most of them apparently from what i am getting and reporting closer to kindergarten. what does that mean? i mean, it does not happen. it is rarely something that happ happens. >> you are right. the possibility that he could have killed himself and killed a person who is very close to himself who is his mother and then someone else, and then killed everything that his mother believed in which is education and nurturing children tell tells me about this is about extreme rage, but severe mental illness to kill the most innocent part ps of the society, and bad enough the teachers and the administrators and to kill innocent children, and this is a rage fueled by delusion, psychosis and he is at the age

of onset possibly and we don't know psychosis and schizophrenia, and put on the garb and went in there in that state that he knew he would not come out of this alive, and with hate towards his mother, and his world. >> was this premeditated? >> it is part of the delusional system where it had been building up for quite some time, and meticulously planned out, and again, part of that delusion, and people will say, well, he could not be insane if he planned this out. insanity is a legal definition. what we know right now is that this person had some severe mental illness. that is all we can make as far as educated guess. >> but legal sanity, i believe is the ability to know the difference of right an wrong. >> right.

>> hard to determine in this case. >> well, we don't know if he knew the difference of right and wrong, but we knew it was extremely wrong and extremely horrific, and you have to go back to the premorbid state with josh as to why we will see this if someone does not have a history of getting help, and we don't know if he was on medications or problem with the compliance of what was going enand his family suspected, because this does not come out of the blue. >> i have read about people who are killers, and they are used to doing almost anything that you can imagine. this is apparently a person who never did anything wrong before and shooting young kids kindergarten children to their face when they are terrified this in cold blood and doing it knowing it is the real world and not a fantasy, and how do you

cross over from the fantasy and psychosis to actually looking people in the eye and doing this kind of thing? >> well, when people are in the midst of a psychotic episode, they can't distinguish between reality and what they are experiencing so it would not be appropriate to say just because he is doing nit real time he understands and appreciates what he is doing. he may be in a complete psychotic state, and it is hard for people to understand they can meticulously plan and execute something like this and be psychotic and have to idea what they are doing and still take steps to do this. >> and what is this psychotic with the suicide and the multiple shooting? >> well, the suicide doesn't have anything to do with the real reason he did something like this. i think that he committed suicide, because he knew no way for him to get out of such a thing without having to face

massive consequences, and he might not have wanted to face those things. >> you know more than the rest of us. thank you josh weiner and our guests. [ male announcer ] in blind taste tests, even ragu users chose prego. prego?! but i've bought ragu for years. [ thinking ] wonder what other questionable choices i've made? i choose date number 2!

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we have endured too many of these tragedies in the past few years, and each time i learn the news, i react not as a president, but as anybody else would as a parent. that was especially true today. i know that there's not a parent in america who doesn't feel the same overwhelming grief that i do. the majority of those who died today were children. beautiful little kids between the ages of 5 and 10 years old.

they had their entire lives ahead of them, birthdays, graduations, weddings, and kids of their own. among the fallen were also teachers, men and women who devoted their lives to help our children fulfill their dreams. >> we are back and that is a very emotional president obama at the white house. kristen welker is live with the latest from washington. kristen, it is an interesting and powerful moment in the presidency to realize it is not just a governmental office, but to be president is to be us, the emblematic person, and to react almost like the adult in the family, the grown-up. >> absolutely. absolutely. and president obama today admitting that he was responding to this tragedy not only as the

president, but also as a father who has two daughters, and that is how he watched these horrific events unfold. we certainly saw that raw emotion come out when he addr s addressed the nation a little bit earlier on today. the other thing that stood out about his comments, chris, he talked about the need for meaningful action saying that it is necessary regardless of the politics. he didn't go into any details today, but i expect in the coming days and weeks that we will learn more about what he specifically meant by meaningful action, but i can tell you that the last time he really talked about gun control and this issue were in the days after the horrific shooting in aurora, colorado, and the president delivering a speech to the urban league, and i want to read a little portion of the speech, chris, because it fleshes out what is behind the president's words today. he said, i believe in the second amendment, but gun owners would believe that ak-47s belong in

the hands of solder ys and not criminals, and on the battlefield and not on the streets, and i think that americans will agree that we should check someone's criminal record before they can check out a gun seller, and that a mentally unbalanced individual should not get his hands on a gun so easily. those are some of the policy issues that are behind those words today, and again, we expect those words to be fleshed out in the weeks to come. this debate has begun already in the white house, and people are going online to express their sadness and grief on the white house website, but calling for stiffer gun legislation, so that the debate on that has already begun. president obama was notified about this tragedy at 10:30 this morning by his national security adviser john brennan and receiving briefings all day, and he has reached out to the director of the fbi and as well

as the governor of connecticut, governor malloy, and also expressed that the federal government will stand with connecticut as it deals with this tragedy and not only emotionally, but offering up full resources in what is a long and dark process ahead for the state. the president ordered the flag lowered to half-staff here at the white ohouse and throughout washington, d.c., and to your initial point, chris, the president making it clear that this is not a tragedy for the state of connecticut, but the tragedy for the nation as well. his emotions overflowing today and one of the most emotional moments we have seen from this president, chris. >> i agree. and watching it on el television, it was overwhelming. thank you, kristen welker. >> we will return with more on the tragedy of the shooting at

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welcome back to "hardball's" coverage of the tragedy of the elementary school in connecticut this morning. michelle franzen is back live with us from newtown. michelle, you are there live tonight, and i wonder what it feels like and the people of that community are all sharing, that grief? >> well, we have felt the emotion grow throughout the day as the details of the tragedy unfolded. at this hour, they are continuing to hold that vigil that we talked about earlier at a nearby catholic church and hundreds gathering there, and reside residents and families coming together and mourning together trying to make sense of the tragedy together. i think that we have a live view of that vigil at this hour. >> yes. >> and several people have commented who are at the ending the vigil tonight that they want t

wanted to come together, and that of course sh, many of them knew of the children at the school, and whether they made it out or did not survive today, and they knew the family, and it is a very close knit community here, and so they are coming together, and trying to offer their condolences, and trying to make sense of what possibly could have prompted the shooter to go ahead and take so many innocent lives today that as these tragic events unfolded. this vigil, and we will see more events like this, chris, in the days to come as the community comes together to make sure they are around for these families. of course, any time of the year, and any place this would happen would be a tragic, but of course, we are kcoming upon the holidays and throughout a town like any other town, there is a lot of holiday decorations, and the firehouse was supposed to be having a christmas tree event tonight, and instead tonight,

they were offering refuge for those families who lost their children today at this school. so it is a close knit community, and the governor said that evil has touched this community today, but they will come through this, and we have also heard from secretary duncan who also said that they will be here for newtown to make sure they get through this tragedy, and there has also been an outpouring of emotional condolences from other communities including columbine and virginia tech, and people reaching out from that area knowing exactly what these families are going through today and the weeks and the years ahead. >> michelle, we are watching as you said, the governor, state governor malloy there at the catholic church making remarks, and we are picking him up right now, and we will see if we can hear him. >> in these times of trouble and travail when the unthinkable

happens in our very midst, our faith is tested. not just in the religious sense and not necessarily the faith in god, but our faith in community and who we are and who we collectively are. it is in so many ways to be per missible to have those thoughts of who we are, and what we are, and what community represents, but then we understand as we turn around this room, and recognize our friends and our neighbors, those we have done things for and those who have done things for us. in is a great and beautiful community. located in a great and beautiful state and in a great and beautiful nation. in the coming days and in the coming week, i will pray that you all embrace one another. that you lift one another up.

that you understand the difficulties that you collectively will undergo. keeping in your prayers the children who lost their lives today, and keeping in your prayers, the adults who lost their lives today. understand that a test is just that. that which we rise to and answer and respond to. in the coming days, as many of us prepare to celebrate the birth of christ, understand that, too, will bring sorrow as we think about these instances that have happened so close to those days. that, too, will pass, and then be overcome. and in all of our prayers and the prayers and the hopes of all of the public officials who have been assembled here today and the presence of the great selectperson, i bring and extend the condolences of the entirety

of this state to you, the members off this community. may god bless you. may god bless our children who are with us today, and those who were taken away and may god bless the adults who lost their lives today. thank you. >> that is governor dan malloy who is a democrat, and that does not matter at all today, but for all of us who go the church around this nation, and where else do you go? come canning up next is "your business" with j.j. ramberg. g. it's amazing what soup can do darrell hasn't been able to visit his mom back east in a long time. [ mom ] things are sometimes a little tight.

i wasn't able to go to the wedding. [ emily jo ] since darrell couldn't get home, we decided to bring home to him and then just gave him a little bit of help finding his way. ♪ [ laughs ] [ applause ] i love you. i love you. [ male announcer ] get together at the rekindle share event. buy one holiday drink, get one free this thursday through sunday. something this delicious could only come from nature.

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